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	<title>Pari&#039;s Blog &#187; Religion</title>
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	<description>Critical thoughts on spirituality, science, and the unchallenged gray areas in between.</description>
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		<title>10,000 Lamps</title>
		<link>http://kaveri.org/wp/2008/12/10000-lamp-vigil/</link>
		<comments>http://kaveri.org/wp/2008/12/10000-lamp-vigil/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 05:25:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>spari</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Hinduism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Religion]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[I always find it strange that when non-Hindus (Christians in particular) holding a 100 candle vigil for peace gets regular coverage on just about every major news channel in India, but something like Hindus lighting over 10,000 lamps for world peace seem to be less worthy of mention and hardly gets a mention even in [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img src="http://kaveri108.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/10008-lamps.jpg" alt="10008 Lamps for World Peace" width="400" height="274" /><br/><br/>I always find it strange that when non-Hindus (Christians in particular) holding a 100 candle vigil for peace gets regular coverage on just about every major <em>news channel</em> in India, but something like Hindus lighting over 10,000 lamps for world peace seem to be less worthy of mention and hardly gets a mention even in print media.<br/><br/>I&#8217;m referring to the recent article in The Hindu: <a href="http://www.hindu.com/2008/12/19/stories/2008121953960200.htm">Over 10,000 lamps lit for World Peace</a>. This is held every year in Madurai. Similar rituals for world peace can be witnessed performed by Hindus all across in different regions of the country. It got only a very bare mention in only one newspaper (that too, only in the local edition).<br/><br/>Like how many times has one <em>not</em> seen a group of Christians holding a candle light vigil for peace? while 10,008 by Hindus gets only a blurb in the local paper? Hmm, this strikes me as a big bias.<br/><br/>This sort of repeated coverage sends the <em>intended</em> message about one culture being more humanitarian and superior than others. Is it a surprise that most non-Christian countries have a xenophobia about the increasing western stake/control in their country&#8217;s media? Control the media, you in time control/penetrate the culture (see <a href="http://kaveri.org/wp/?p=87">Discreditation</a> and <a href="http://kaveri.org/wp/?p=203">Missionary Aggression</a>).</p>
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		<title>Banning Kolams</title>
		<link>http://kaveri.org/wp/2008/12/banning-kolams/</link>
		<comments>http://kaveri.org/wp/2008/12/banning-kolams/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 16:09:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>spari</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Religion]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[A home owners association in South Riding, Virginia sent a notice to an Indian resident to remove their kolam decorations off their driveway. For those who don&#8217;t know, a kolam is a form of sand drawing practiced by Hindus in South India, usually drawn with rice flour, outdoors, at the entrance of a home (and [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A home owners association in South Riding, Virginia sent a notice to an Indian resident to remove their kolam decorations off their driveway. For those who don&#8217;t know, a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolam">kolam</a> is a form of sand drawing practiced by Hindus in South India, usually drawn with rice flour, outdoors, at the entrance of a home (and gets blown away with elements of nature). The design patterns are a reflection of harmonious patterns present in nature, and is believed to bring in auspicious energy.</p>
<blockquote><p>After an exchange of e-mails with the association, Balasubramanian organized an energetic appeal, polling 20 of his immediate neighbors to see whether they objected to the kolam. Nobody did.</p>
<p>He gathered signatures and appeared before the association&#8217;s board, made up of volunteer residents, in September. The board listened but ruled against him&#8230;.</p>
<p class="authorQuote">Full article: <a href="http://loudounextra.washingtonpost.com/news/2008/dec/08/painting-tests-religious-freedom/">Painting Tests Religious Freedom</a></p>
<p>&nbsp;</p></blockquote>
<p>It&#8217;s about religious expression and sensitivity to other&#8217;s religious expression. <em>If people want to ban kolams, they might as well ban Christmas lights</em> (which is far more ostentatious than a kolam). Now that could get pretty ugly, and we&#8217;d be left with lifeless, plastic, intolerant mono-culture (with the illusion of pluralism).</p>
<p>I&#8217;d doubt they&#8217;d have raised such a commotion if this was an African American celebrating with Kwanzaa decorations on their driveway or a Jew with big inflatable menorah in front of his house (as was the case with one Jewish resident in that same neighbourhood &#8211; a friend living there tells me). So why is there this<em> blind-sight in granting this same freedom of religious expression to Hindus?</em></p>
<p>There is really no telling if this is a case of sheer intolerance (to new cultures), insensitivity, prejudice, or a bit of each. These folks should be sent to India for sensitivity training &#8212; where they&#8217;ll see a <em>door-to-door</em> display of real diversity with <em>strikingly varied religious expressions and customs</em>: dazzling array of different languages, attires, traditions, and sub-cultures&#8230; ought to make any squabbles over a kolam seem really petty (and indeed backward). India is eons ahead in regard to pluralism. The USA, a country where even wearing turban or bindi solicits resentment (let alone wearing lungis or dhotis)&#8230; has a long way to go.</p>
<p>I remember a comment once from an American about why many Indians wear moustaches. Before I could rebut, a [female Muslim] colleague replied saying it&#8217;s just part of their culture. My retort should have been, we don&#8217;t ask you why Americans <em>don&#8217;t</em> wear moustaches, do we? The question seems innocent, but it reflects an air of presumptuousness. Especially so from folks from non-multicultural cities. The &#8220;white is right syndrome&#8221; (and by &#8220;white&#8221; I mean a psychology that seems to cut across whatever the color of your hide is), which tends to dictate the standards for what is &#8220;normal&#8221; and what is not.</p>
<p>I think Americans really need get out more (I&#8217;m talking about outside the country). But then, many have succumbed to the shock doctrine, that anywhere outside the country terrorists are out to get them. If I were to use the same reasoning, I&#8217;d say one shouldn&#8217;t go to New York for fear of getting shot or mugged.</p>
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		<title>Discreditation</title>
		<link>http://kaveri.org/wp/2007/12/discreditation/</link>
		<comments>http://kaveri.org/wp/2007/12/discreditation/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 02:02:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>spari</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Hinduism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Religion]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kaveri.org/wp/?p=87</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Introduction There is a considerable bias in the media when it comes to Hindus, particularly in Western countries. The media is very sensitive when in it comes to their coverage of Christians, Muslims, or African-Americans. Perhaps because these groups will not meekly stand by and take any misrepresentation of their culture. They will mobilize in [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<h3>Introduction</h3>
<p>There is a considerable bias in the media when it comes to Hindus, particularly in Western countries. The media is very sensitive when in it comes to their coverage of Christians, Muslims, or African-Americans. Perhaps because these groups will not meekly stand by and take any misrepresentation of their culture. They will mobilize in no time. Not to mention most of them have a strong network (ownership of media conglomerates, powerful lobbies, etc.). In comparison, the toleration of Hindus is almost incredulous and an equivalent network is non-existent. I don&#8217;t blame them. At one point Africa-Americans were not also unified in their voice, now they have very strong lobbies to represent them. A bunch of wakeup-calls were needed. Maybe what Hindus are seeing today is their wakeup call.</p>
<p>Silence is equally powerful in downgrading a culture. For example, while other cultures are constantly showcased for their great contributions, nothing is mentioned of Hindus contribution in science, engineering, technology, mathematics, arts, music, literature, etc. Not just in the past, but also the enormous number of scientific and technological contributions of Hindus today. What&#8217;s worse is that not only does Western civilization continuously expropriate knowledge from indigenous civilizations, but they do whatever it takes to discredit them completely (let alone try to acknowledge them). In American school books for example (if one were to take progressive states like California and Virginia as an example), in the study of &#8220;Hinduism&#8221;, not one word is mentioned of Hindu&#8217;s contribution in terms of yoga, mathematics, grammar, ayurveda, or its richness in culture, diversity, plurality, or its many schools of philosophy. Not one word is mentioned about Vivekananda for example who spent much of his life bringing concepts of meditation, yoga, spirituality over religion, and pluralism into the reach of the West (all of which were alien concepts to the West).</p>
<p>Yoga, which is practiced by 20 million Americans today is hardly ever mentioned in the media as coming from Hindus.  In a Time magazine <em>3-page</em> cover-story article &#8220;The Power of Yoga&#8221; [1], the word Hindu or Hinduism was <em>not mentioned even once</em>. Few people know that even something so common today as <em>meditation</em>, was introduced as a formalized technique to the West by Hindu spiritual teachers between 1890-1960(Swami Vivekananda, Swami Yogananda, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi). For almost three decades it was downplayed by the media and scientists as<em> &#8220;mysticism&#8221;</em> of the East all the way through the late 70&#8242;s. It became part of the mainstream <em>only after</em> being stripped and sterilized from its Hindu origins (more examples in <a href="http://kaveri.org/wp/?cat=21">Non-Attribution</a>). Another common sterilization is to use the word &#8220;eastern  mysticism&#8221; (or &#8220;spiritualism&#8221;) to refer to Hindu philosophical thought and its contributions (essentially purging out any association with the word Hindu).</p>
<h3>Why the Bias?</h3>
<p>Well, it&#8217;s all about religion. In the eyes of fundamentalist Christianity [and Islam], anything Hindu seems to be repugnant, vile, and to be despised (at the same time they cannot deny its qualities which postmodernists are trying to frantically expropriate and reinvent today). I feel this deep seated feeling arises out of an insecurity for two reasons: 1) Hinduism is based on pluralism and is also very knowledge-centric, both of which are seen as a threat to fundamentalist religions, 2) the fact that Hindu civilization was far more advanced and older than Greek civilization is a stab in the heart of their core power structure which is entirely built upon that image (all their great institutions of higher learning and self-assumed superiority over the human race). Most of the newer generation are far more multicultural and open, but still the baton of power carries over (i.e. to the default known as &#8220;white privileges&#8221;; note that white does not necessarily mean color, but a subscription to a particular culture).</p>
<p>This stigma is a carry-over from the colonial era (arising from a Christian or white superiority that was acutely eminent in those days). The disbelief and vexation that the British encountered when they first came to India, when these Hindus not only learned their &#8220;barbaric tongue&#8221; (English) so easily, but mastered it and taught it right back to them (<em>the first formal book on English grammar</em> was written by the Madras Presidency College and was taken by an emissary of the British Empire to England and presented to the Queen). That was just the beginning, the more they learned the more revolting it was for them to digest &#8211; they had to face the fact that Hindu civilization was at least 4,000 years older than Greek civilization (during that time period Western civilization was just barely beginning to move from Stone Age to Bronze Age). That the Hindus were far ahead in:</p>
<ul>
<li><em>Language:</em> the discovery of classical languages in Hindu culture (such as Sanskrit and Tamil) that were far more refined than English (in grammar, elegance, and ability to carry and express profound thoughts and nuances). A 5th century Tamil epic alludes to Greeks as &#8220;those who speak in a barbaric/unrefined tongue/language&#8221; on more than few occasions (indicates just how much importance was given to how refined the language and how far advanced Indian culture was).</li>
<li><em>Literature:</em> the discovery of the sheer richness of Hindu classical literature (in Sanskrit, Tamil, Bengali,&#8230;) that completely eclipsed Greek classics &#8211; in quality and quantity.</li>
<li><em>Sciences:</em> that the Hindus were far advanced in metallurgy, ship building, architecture, medicine, agriculture, textiles, astronomy, epistemology, logic, metaphysics, psychology, etc. Not to mention their encounter with sciences that have no parallel in Western civilization, such as yoga, ayurveda, samkhya/vedanta philosophy, etc.</li>
<li><em>Mathematics:</em> invention of the zero, the decimal system, algebra (eg: quadratic equations), trigonometry (eg: π, pythagoras theorem), calculus &#8211; all of which are widely acknowledged today as having origins in Hindu culture, transmitted by the Arabs to Europe.</li>
<li><em>Art Forms:</em> the sheer richness, uniqueness, and the deep spiritual undertones of their classical music, dance, poetry, temple art, and symbolism.</li>
</ul>
<p>The self-assumed superiority of the West, for centuries, was reinforced by themselves (quite pathologically) by brand marketing: <em>Act 1</em> (colonial): &#8220;India &#8211; the land of spices, exotic, mystical, snake-charmers, elephants, tigers, tea, and turbans&#8221;. <em>Act 2</em> (post-colonial): &#8220;India &#8211; the land of caste system, cow-worship, dowry, sati, and poverty&#8221;. <em>Act 3</em> (today): &#8220;India &#8211; the land of call centers, curry, chai, tandoori-chicken, and seven-elevens&#8221;. <em>Act 4</em> (in the making): &#8220;India &#8211; the land of gurus, ashrams, <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">yoga</span>, and Bangalore&#8221;.</p>
<p>That is, if you were to take a poll of non-Indians (outside of India) and asked them to describe India, a vast majority are likely to use exactly those descriptions and nothing more, in each of those eras.</p>
<h3>Counter Points</h3>
<p>Western media and academics routinely discredit Hindus by characterizing them in terms of the worst possible elements. The points below <em>dominate</em> descriptions of Hinduism in school textbooks in the USA. Let&#8217;s examine each of these characterizations:</p>
<ol>
<li>Caste? Western media chooses to <em>characterize</em> Hinduism using caste system while it makes their culture exempt from being characterized by its own caste system.
<ul>
<li>For example, in the USA, politicians play the caste card with Hispanics, Blacks, the Christian right, Muslims, gays, the rich, the homeless, immigrants, privileged outer-city folks, marginalized inner-city folks.</li>
<li>And the biggest caste of all in the USA is that of <em>racism and discrimination</em>. I have to say this is rapidly dying, but still exists as a major influence. The so called <em><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege">white privilege</a></em> which penetrates all ranks of American society &#8211; business, academics, politics, etc. Just because racism and discrimination is conveniently sugar coated by calling it a sect or community or not even talking about it (silently shoving it into the closet) doesn&#8217;t make it any different &#8212; it only goes to further show the existence of white privilege.</li>
<li>The caste system in the USA is thus <em>hidden (not spoken of)</em>. Which makes it all the more dangerous. It is much easier to deal with the problem, when you know the problem exists versus when you are in denial. <em>This is why India has probably the biggest and most outreaching affirmative action program in the world</em>, and has done more for its minorities than any other country.</li>
<li>One need only observe how cities in the USA are segregated (and hardly get visibility on the radar when it comes to politics). For example: take Washington D.C. &#8211; the whole of South-East D.C. is almost exclusively black population (newscasters are careful to make the distinction &#8211; inner city versus outers city kids for example).</li>
<li>For most of its <em>two-thousand year</em> history, Western civilization can be characterized by things far more worse then the caste system: barbaric racism, slavery, imperialism, feudalism, serfdom. Marked by barbaric cruelty, torture, persecution, witch-hunts (trials, burnings, impalement of women), and genocides in the name of race and religion. They&#8217;ve become reasonably civilized only in the last 150 years or so. In comparison, Hindu culture in its <em>over five-thousand years</em> history has been very benign and extremely pluralistic. So, the West doesn&#8217;t really hold any higher moral ground to talk about the problems in cultures (though it may reserve the right to).</li>
<li>Many Christians do not even allow a person from another Christian sect into their church or community. Churches in many countries have separate seating areas for the &#8220;lesser people&#8221; &#8212; not to mention they are discriminated against from becoming priests.</li>
<li>Muslims have been at conflict with each other for well over a thousand years in the name of the communities they belong to (not just Shia vs Sunni Muslims, but even sects within them). In contrast, in Hindu culture one can see radically different communities, each with completely different sages, methods of worship, mythologies, image of God, all  going to each others temple (followers of Vishnu, Siva, Kali, Muruga for example) creating a total synergy between each other as opposed to conflict. If Christians were open-minded as Hindus, a figure of Jesus Christ would be found in every Hindu temple along with all the other siddhas and sages, and respected likewise for their contribution to spirituality.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Dowry deaths? The dowry system is still a problem in most parts of India, but it is rapidly declining (though progress is much slower in the lower middle class and below). Dowry and dowry related crimes are ever more monitored and severely dealt with by the legal system and the society today than ever before. But the point here is, by the same token one could characterize Christianity in terms of the number of spouses in the USA killed over insurance fraud &#8211; which is probably statistically greater. Or the practice of honor killings, beheadings, and lapidations in Muslim countries &#8211; which not only <em>go unpunished</em>, but are <em>sanctioned</em> by the Islamic law in those countries.</li>
<li>Cow worship? Western media (and educational material used in schools) is quick to note that Hindus consider cows as sacred. It fails to note that Hinduism is rich in symbolism, and many things are considered sacred, ranging from all living things, to rivers, hills, space, time, language, mathematics, music, etc. It is the fault of the Western culture (a reflection of their level of maturity when it comes to spirituality?) that they chose to focus only on the cow. The cow is symbolic of abundance and non-violence &#8211; not too different from the way the American bald eagle is to the USA symbolic of commitment to freedom and strength.</li>
<li>Idol worship? in what way is <em>&#8220;a dead man nailed to a cross worship&#8221;</em> or &#8220;the cannibalistic partaking of the blood and flesh of Christ&#8221; (communion), any less an idol worship or ritualistic? The same can be said about Islam. The Muslims obsession with the Koran is such that it has pretty much been idolized &#8211; &#8220;Koran worship&#8221;, so has the word &#8220;Allah&#8221; or &#8220;Mohammad&#8221; been idolized. You&#8217;ll see this form of idolization in many Muslims homes (and even vehicles and offices). Not to mention the Muslims desire to emulate Mohammad in all ways (a gross form of idolatory; call it Mohammadism if you will). Islam can be also depicted as <em>&#8220;black stone worship&#8221;</em>, referring to the Kaaba (aka, &#8220;The Abode of Allah&#8221;) &#8211; the thousands who throng there to kiss the stone, or even the fact that Muslims worship the black stone five times a day by facing that direction in their duty to prayer. The Christian/Muslim will protest that we don&#8217;t know what we are talking about, that we are maligning Jesus/Mohammad, that they are all &#8220;symbolic&#8221; and not idol worship. <em>Precisely my point.</em> It is interesting that Hindus have always been broadminded enough to understand the symbolism of other faiths, but for some reason other faiths don&#8217;t reciprocate that. Perhaps because fundamentalist religions are so stuck up that their faith is <em>the</em> true faith that they refuse to even try to look at other faiths in a positive light? This the danger of fundamentalism &#8211; the more fundamentalist you are in your beliefs, the more it stifles your thought.</li>
<li>Sati? It shows a sort of desperation, when Western media chooses to characterize Hinduism by cherry picking something that occurs in a frequency of less than a 1 in a population of a billion (.00000001%) per year. There have been <em>5</em> documented cases (including press coverage) in 20 years (between 1987-2007) in a population of almost 1 billion. Just do the math folks. Ironically the origin of sati started when Hindu women started immolating themselves in order to be spared from being molested or taken as sex slaves by marauding Muslims who had conquered their land (and killed their spouses). It&#8217;s only the name that was taken from the Hindu puranas, and not the practice itself. Again it&#8217;s a case of the Westerner transposing his cultural conditioning by making <em>literalistic</em> interpretations of Hindu texts, and from that deriving &#8220;religious injunctions&#8221; to be followed (like they do with the Bible or Koran). In some places in India, especially tribal populations, there was the practice that the wife should follow her husband upon his death (similar to the pre-historic ritual where the dead are buried with all the amenities of life to accompany them on their journey to the after-life).</li>
<li>Mythology? The stories in Hindu spiritual literature is not mythology, but known as <em>itihasas</em> (or &#8220;thus verily it came to be&#8221;). Whatever came to be, came into being, as we caused it to be (this is a very deep/existential concept). Meaning, Hindus could care less of the historical origins of it (this is why for a man in North India the birth place of the avatar Rama is in his village there, and for another guy it is in his village in South India, and there is no conflict, as itihasas don&#8217;t care about these details, but in transmitting the profound knowledge they carry). Even so, supposing just for sake, we allow people to call the Hindu <em>itihasas</em> and puranas (like the Mahabharata and Ramayana) as Hindu &#8220;mythology&#8221;. Then by the same yard stick, why not call the Bible as <em>Christian mythology</em> or the Koran as <em>Muslim mythology</em>?<em> there is absolutely no proof that the people and events in these books even existed!</em> If they quote the accounts of them in their &#8220;mythology&#8221; <em>itself</em> as evidence, then well by the same token Hindus can show accounts of their saints and sages in their &#8220;mythology&#8221; as evidence (with far more numerous references, just based on sheer volumes of ancient literature). Not to mention the number of times the Bible has been edited after its inception, and the number of times the Koran was edited for many years before it was made unalterable.</li>
<li>Fundamentalists? The biggest oxymoron is the wording &#8220;Hindu fundamentalist&#8221;. Hindus are probably the most tolerant and pluralistic people you can imagine &#8211; boasting over a thousand faiths, practices, spiritual texts, and sub-cultures (20,000 by UNESCO estimate) each including their own arts, music, dance, languages, etc. <em>If at all they are fundamentalist over anything it would be in protecting their highly pluralistic society</em> from being destroyed by the &#8220;my way or the highway&#8221; religions (Christianity and Islam &#8211; in particular the more evangelical and fundamentalist strains of these religions). Christian and Muslim missionaries engage in spiritual terrorism by spewing hate speech and abuse on Hindu culture, practices, literature, gurus, temples, and institutions. In contrast if a Hindu as much as even raises a finger in defense, the entire Christian controlled media starts howling about &#8220;intolerance&#8221; and &#8220;Hindu fundamentalists&#8221; trying to suppress their freedom [to abuse them] (the irony). Could they not instead describe the immense plurality of Hinduism where several thousand faiths live in perfect synergy (i.e. the complete freedom of expression of worshipping (approaching/addressing) God in whatever image, form, method, approach, book, sage, story, vision you like)?</li>
<li>Christianity/Islam &#8211; religions of peace? The only &#8220;religions&#8221; of peace are those who are spiritual versus being obsessed by a book or a prophet (example of spirituality-centric faiths: all the numerous faiths co-existing under the canopy of Hindu culture, the hundreds of faiths of indigenous populations like that of the Native Americans, Aborigines, Wiccans, and religions like Sikhism, Buddhism, Jainism, Taoism, Sufism). Christian and Islamic civilizations <em>for most of their entire history</em>, have been running rampant to conquer and to convert, or to decimate or enslave (in the name of their prophets) &#8211; <em>and still continues today (via radicalized Islam and Christianity)</em>. The native population of entire continents were decimated &#8211; the Native South American population (by the Spanish and Portuguese), the Native North American population (by the British, Spanish, and French), the Aboriginal population of Australia (by the Portuguese, Spanish, Dutch, and British), the native Hindu population of Afghanistan (by Turks, Persians, Arabs, and Mongols), the Jews of Europe (by Germans and Italians). Not to mention also the brutal colonization of South Africa, the Christian Inquisition, the persecution of the wiccans of Europe, the genocide of the pagans of Russia, black slavery (the Black Holocaust), the horrendous witch trials,&#8230;</li>
<li>Disgusting Rituals? Textbooks show how Hindus believe that bathing in the river Ganga, which is considered sacred by them, purifies them, and that they even drink the water which is dirty and filled with filth. That may be true, but do they have to accompany it by a photo of the most dirtiest portions of the Ganga? <em>In other words, when they depict all other religions in the best possible light, shouldn&#8217;t they do the same for Hindus?</em> Isn&#8217;t there anything else in the whole of India to show &#8211; like the <em>millions of colorful puja rituals</em> decked with garlands of flowers and offerings of fruits, milk, rice performed every day across thousands of beautiful temples (and within each home) as a broader and more accurate representation of Hindu &#8220;rituals&#8221;? One has to be weary of Christianity to portray Hindus as ritualistic and superstitious while conveniently excluding themselves (so that they can come out looking more &#8220;civilized&#8221; and can preach upon others). For example, let&#8217;s take the Ganga theme, they could have said:
<ul>
<li>&#8220;Many Hindus believe in purifying themselves by bathing in the sacred river Ganga&#8221; &#8212; provided they also have under Christianity: &#8220;Many Christians believe in the practice of baptism (dipping a person in &#8216;holy water&#8217;) for purification of sins&#8221;.</li>
<li>They can also add: &#8220;Many Hindus believe that dying in the Ganga will give them liberation from the cycle of life and death&#8221; &#8212; provided they also have under Christianity: &#8220;Many Christians bury their dead because they believe they will be resurrected back to life on Judgment Day&#8221;.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Dirty People? Books describe Hindus as dirty or poor people, as if they need to be &#8220;saved&#8221;. I&#8217;ll raise several points here:
<ul>
<li>Not only is it wrong, but it is arrogant to take advantage of poverty stricken areas and label them as &#8220;dirty people&#8221; (don&#8217;t they teach anything about compassion or tolerance in Christianity?).</li>
<li>It is true that there are many poor people living well below the poverty line (and in dire need of assistance), <em>but it is an wrong to refer to the bulk of Hindus as &#8220;poor people&#8221;</em> just because they don&#8217;t fit the lavish lifestyle of the Westerner. Many Indians are content with what they have &#8212; which is perhaps why they did not make as much <em>material</em> progress as the USA. If you are content with what you have, and you are not living under deprivation of basic civil amenities (food, water, clothing, sanitation, clean shelter, schooling, etc), you can&#8217;t call it poverty. There are many in India who are living under depraved conditions, but to characterize Hindus (in school text books) as &#8220;poor people&#8221; or as living under poverty would be wrong. I don&#8217;t think they&#8217;d appreciate being reduced some category called &#8220;poor people&#8221; deserving pity.</li>
<li>Even those the West calls as &#8220;poor&#8221; people in India live with a certain dignity. That is, they don&#8217;t have feelings of envy or inferiority over the more affluent person. This is not the case in Christian societies, where the poor are &#8220;outcast&#8221;  (talk about caste!) resulting in crime or psychological stigma of being poor. Such labeling as &#8220;poor people&#8221; introduces a sense of shame or stigma (which would otherwise  be non-existent) on otherwise contented people (regardless of which country). This pushes them to discontent (which can manifest in directions ranging from material progress to crime). Nothing  wrong in going after material desires for practical reasons, but not  out of being stigmatized with a label. It is an irony that simple villages are show-cased for being more cultured people, but at the same time are labeled as &#8220;backward and poor societies&#8221; (even when they meet the standards of having all basic civil amenities).</li>
<li>Not to mention the poorest cities (living under deprivation) in India are those that had the largest presence and hence ravaged the most by British Imperialism (whose gruesome exploits lasted over 300 years; it was not uncommon for British to refer to Hindus as beggars, brown niggers, heathens,&#8230; and lynched by the millions &#8212; see Hindu Holocaust article).</li>
<li>To add further to the irony one should note that the concept of taking bath every day was learned by the Europeans from India. Any basic reading of Christian history will reveal how the Church forbade daily bathing and about how the royal families took bath only a few times a year. In fact the word &#8220;shampoo&#8221; has roots in the Hindi word &#8220;champa&#8221; which refers to &#8220;head massage&#8221; (using a herbal mixture &#8211; which even today&#8217;s shampoos are migrating back towards). The average Hindu would rather forfeit a day without food than go without a bath.</li>
<li>Pollution of the environment has become an endemic problem in India &#8211; but this is not a reflection of Hinduism, nor one&#8217;s body cleanliness, nor one&#8217;s homes cleanliness. It a reflection of a society and its rapid acceleration towards modernity, without the proper civic services in place.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Bhagavad Gita as violent? Again I&#8217;ll raise a few points here:
<ul>
<li>The Christian/Muslim&#8217;s violent interpretations of the Gita actually gives an insight into the pathology of the radical Chrsitian/Muslim mind &#8211; obsessed with war, domination, violence. People see what they have been conditioned to see by virtue of the culture they subscribe to. The Hindus view the Bhagavad Gita as an internal struggle which goes on in every day decisions in the life of any person (between what is right or wrong, action or inaction, between the ego and the self, society over individualism, etc.). The first chapter of the Gita is dedicated to the metaphor of this internal &#8220;struggle&#8221;, the remaining 17 chapters is a grand exposition of various techniques/yogas to transcend it). That&#8217;s because the interpretation of the Gita come from a higher and more evolved level of thinking.</li>
<li>That is why in India has spent the most part of her long and ancient history not in conquering or subjugating nations, but in assimilating many different faiths and cultures (even those that were persecuted by others found refuge in India). It is no coincidence that the concept of <em>ahimsa</em> (non-violence) as a political movement for transferring power arose in India, as opposed to violent reforms or revolutions. In contrast Christianity and Islam have the most violent history of conquering and decimating indigenous cultures on just about every continent in the name of religion.</li>
<li>Even if one were to insist on making literalist mis-interpretations of the Gita, then in all fairness one should examine Christian and Islamic literature which is riddled with violence (in fact, so abundant that you won&#8217;t have to even search hard to find it). Such as the sanctioning or legitimizing rape, murder, genocide, torture, crucification, witch trials, slavery (of &#8220;heretics&#8221;, non-believers, kaffirs, heathens, and the women and children of those who have been conquered). Riddled with <em>religious justification</em> for war, slavery, killing animals for food, etc. Such religious justification is even used today: radical Christians in the USA called the invasion of Iraq as a &#8220;just war&#8221;, and radical Islam in its goal to establish <em>dar-ul-islam</em> (a global hegemony of Islam) by any means, including threatening the destruction or take over of nations that do not submit. Granted these are by radicals, but these radicals dominate their religions.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Animal Sacrifices?
<ul>
<li>Again do they have to cherry pick some tribal practices of animal sacrifice which is prevalent among ignorant masses, while the majority (99%) of Hindus offer platters of flowers, fruits, rice, coconuts, incense etc, for their religious offerings to their gods (i.e. to whatever their favorite expression of God is)? Could they not have shown a picture of that? If you go to any photo website &#8211; you&#8217;ll find plenty of such beautiful photos. But if you see any school/university text on Hinduism, it will the one photo where some tribal sacrifices a rooster or a goat, that gets used to characterize Hinduism.</li>
<li>Even more so, what does that have to say of how much more barbaric and inhumane Islams practice of halal is &#8211; i.e. cutting the throat of a goat while it is still alive (you should see some videos of it) <em>as it is required by their religion</em>, or Christianity in the billions of animals they kill and consume, <em>as they claim is justified by their religion.</em></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Lack Compassion? Christians are shown as great humanitarians where as Hindus are not. This is not true. Hindu ashrams continually do immeasurable humanitarian work &#8211; with zero expectations (including never proselytizing), in many areas: education, health care, disaster relief, housing, orphanages, pensions for poor women, hospices,…. But this gets zero visibility on the media (because of this media bias which this article is pointing out). In fact I&#8217;d even say Hindu organizations are much efficient in the use of the money that is donated (as a large portion of the money of Christian organizations go to administration and evangelizing). For example: the bias is so blind that Mother Teresa has always shown as serving Kolkata&#8217;s poor, while right next door to her is one of the oldest Hindu ashrams compassionately serving millions of people &#8211; and is totally ignored! It may be true that Christianity has a larger network and tremendously more funding. But this has to be put in context:
<ul>
<li>Christianity has over a 300 year headstart (<em>during which Hindus were incapacitated under British Rule</em>).</li>
<li>The Church has about 1,400 years of accumulation of <em>conquered wealth</em>, that are now reinvested generating a continuous stream of revenue.</li>
<li>Christianity derives much of its billions of dollars in revenue from much of the <em>conquered land</em> in the world from colonial era. For example, little do people know that over 70% of the non-governmental land in India is owned by Christians (who represent less than 5% of the population) <em>[need to validate this]</em>.</li>
<li>There is a sense of arrogance in how Christianity destroys civilizations as marauders of wealth and human resources, and comes back to &#8220;save you&#8221; (and this time destroying the culture). Take any of the wars even in the last century (of non-Christian countries attacked and devastated by Christian countries) and count the tremendous spurt in missionary activities &#8220;reaping the harvest&#8221; immediately afterwards. The conversations have done more harm than their humanitarian work by tremendously destabilizing each country &#8211; pitting the native non-Christian populations against Christians (known as Christian aggression, because the newly converted folks are even more zealous in evangelizing and aggressively targeting not just the native people, but the very fabric of their culture).</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Oppression of women? First of all oppression of women is everywhere. The kind of oppression in the USA and in India might be different, but in both cases it is a big issue. My point being it is unfair to make it seem as if it is only in India. Then again, who cares. In the long run we&#8217;ll all be the better for it. The common mistake is to view Hinduism as a &#8220;religion&#8221; based on &#8220;religious injunctions&#8221;, based on some &#8220;holy book&#8221; (like Christianity or Islam). It is not. Hinduism has scores books constantly feeding into it (the only part of Hindu spiritual literature that remains static are the Upanishads &#8211; which reveal fundamental operating principles of the Universe &#8211; which if they were to be rediscovered independently will be in all likelihood be the same). Not to mention, if Hindus were to use the same yard stick, they could pull copious amounts of quotes from Biblical or Islamic texts that not only oppresses or subjugates women, but are in fact barbaric (such as legitimizing the beating, killing, and rape of women). Here are some examples of status of women in Hindu society (in past and present) &#8211; bear in mind these are points for compare and contrast (again, Hindu society <em>like any other</em> has tremendous inequities when it comes to women; and at the same time women empowerment in India is progressing at a rate more than in developed nations):
<ul>
<li>India has had a number of Hindu women sages, leaders, and scholars. Christianity and Islam has had a very long barbaric record denying equal status to women. For example, while men claiming spiritual experiences were given the benefit of the doubt, women were branded as heretics or witches, subject to torture &#8211; exorcism, burnt alive, impaled, crucified. In stark contrast, in India, women &#8211; whether she be a &#8220;courtesan/prostitute&#8221; (Manimékhalai, 171 CE) or a &#8220;crazy half-naked poet&#8221; (Kāraikal Ammaiyār, 6 CE) have been recognized for their enlightenment and earned the status of great saints. Such has been unthinkable in Christian or Muslim culture even today. Often in Christianity women are elevated to sainthood only posthumously and if they have a few magnitudes more merit than their male counterparts.</li>
<li>India has had more women heads of state and members of parliament than any other country. India had her first stateswomen back in the 2nd century (Avvaiyār), and her works of state governance is another perenial wisdom that is still relevant and quoted today.</li>
<li>Female priests are making a comeback, particularly in the state of Kerala (and the trend is catching on in the Tamil Nadu as well). The fact that they can do it, and that at its growth rate, it will exceed the number of women priests in the Church and Mosques.</li>
<li>While it is not true that education automatically makes you liberated, it does open up the possibility of pursuing an independent career. The number of Hindu working woman with <em>advanced degrees/skills</em> &#8211; women engineers, scientists, businesswomen, politicians, etc. far exceeds that of any Christian or Muslim country. American women tend to not pursue advanced degrees because the conditionings in their society has not been conducive to such aspirations. Some are given only false/limited sense of being &#8220;liberated&#8221; &#8211; as they are confined to only a few choices like: marketing, administrative, secretarial, modeling, acting, nurse. Personal note: when I did my undergraduate (engineering) in India about 50% of the class were women, but in the USA I observed women were a <em>significant minority</em> (like less than 10%!) in most of the advanced science and engineering classes. I found that most of the women in the USA were in arts or soft sciences (like humanities, literature,  music, history).</li>
<li>How many business women, women doctors, or women scientists have penetrated the &#8220;glass ceiling&#8221; in the USA? If you don&#8217;t know, just ask any women in the USA what all she had to put up with to try to make it up the ladder.</li>
<li>While I&#8217;d like to point out that Goddess worship (God with female attributes) is very prevalent in India also as a supporting point&#8230; I won&#8217;t. As it really has very little to do with the liberation of women. Seriously, how many women are &#8220;liberated&#8221; by worshipping a Goddess (and how many men support that). I could understand it if Goddess worship was more genuine like in some of the non-patriarchal cultures (not much of which is left today), like those of Native Americans tribes, the Aborigines of Australia, most of the pagan and wiccan cultures of Eastern Europe and Russia, the Odiyathis and Aghorinis of Kerala, etc &#8212; where goddess worship did reflect empowerment and the liberated spirit of the women in those cultures. Having said that, at least Hindu culture <em>allows for Goddess worship</em><em> </em>and hence is <em>completely open to gender equality</em> &#8212; both of which are almost blasphemous in Christianity and Islam (which have history of persecuting those who subscribe to such thoughts as heretics).</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ol>
<h3>See Also</h3>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://www.hafsite.org/">Hindu America Foundation</a> (watch this <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJ48dA-8Kss&amp;feature=player_embedded">video</a>)</li>
<li><a href="http://kaveri.org/wp/2002/08/the-hindu-holocaust/">Hindu Holocaust</a></li>
<li><a href="http://kaveri.org/wp/?p=203">The Missionary Aggression</a></li>
<li><a href="http://kaveri.org/wp/?cat=21">Non-Attribution</a></li>
<li>[1] <a href="http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,106356-2,00.html">The Power of Yoga</a></li>
<li>[2] <a href="http://www.hindu.com/2008/12/19/stories/2008121953960200.htm">10,008 Lamps for World Peace</a></li>
<li><a href="http://kaveri.org/wp/?p=126">India Today &#8211; Economy</a></li>
<li><a href="http://kaveri.org/wp/?p=42">Caste System</a></li>
</ul>
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		<slash:comments>2</slash:comments>
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		<item>
		<title>Brainwashing</title>
		<link>http://kaveri.org/wp/2005/02/brainwashing/</link>
		<comments>http://kaveri.org/wp/2005/02/brainwashing/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Feb 2005 04:08:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>spari</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Religion]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kaveri.org/wp/?p=90</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A Muslim colleague came back from his pilgrimage trip to Mecca, with a book, for me. A few months back, he had started to talk about he the Koran, when I cut him off and told him I was not interested because I&#8217;m interested in religious books because religious books are not based on science [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A Muslim colleague came back from his pilgrimage trip to Mecca, with a book, for me.  A few months back, he had started to talk about he the Koran, when I cut him off and told him I was not interested because I&#8217;m interested in religious books because religious books are not based on science or reasoning (hence religious books, duh, which aparently some people don&#8217;t get). I told him religious books like the Koran were driven by the principle that you have to submit to it and believe in it blindly, rather than based on appealing to one&#8217;s sense of reasoning. By the way I use the term &#8220;science&#8221; in the broader Hindu sense, which encompasses and includes the science of spirituality.</p>
<p>So he comes back with this book showing that the Koran does have science in it. He placed the book on my desk, said he bought it just for me, and insisted that I read it. I was puzzled, about why he was so bent on convincing me, but I&#8217;m open to this sort of interaction&#8230; and I read it. And here&#8217;s what I have to say (hopefully this will serve as a warning to him and any  other religious fundamentalists who they try to pedal their crap to me next time).</p>
<p>The book is &#8220;A Brief Illustrated Guide to Understanding Islam&#8221; (I&#8217;ll just refer to it as <em>the book</em>), by I. A. Ibrahim (Second Edition, Darussalam publications). It is also online, at www.islam-guide.com.</p>
<p>I found it to be one of the most ridiculous books I&#8217;ve come across. You have to be stupendously ignorant (or absolutely gullible, illiterate, or desperate) to buy into it. Unfortunately there are plenty of such people in this world (both in developed and underdeveloped countries), and it is these people that radical Muslims prey upon and celebrate with much jubilation for every person they succeed in convincing. I can clearly see how young children and the illiterate masses in the world can be so easily brainwashed by such propaganda material, thus believing that the Koran is everything and that there is nothing greater than the Koran. After reading this book, I felt perhaps this guy was one of them. Yes, even in the workplace, in the USA, in a high profile company, you find such people!</p>
<p>One note before you read on&#8230; I&#8217;ve heard of some people being called a racist for criticizing someone&#8217;s religion. Well, I&#8217;ve got news for anyone who shares this view: criticizing religion is not racism. Everyone has the right to, and should criticize religion &#8211; <em>any religion</em>, until all the dogma is stripped and flushed away &#8212; leaving the &#8220;golden kernel of spirituality&#8221; (which has no one founder, no one prophet, no one holy book, etc.). True spirituality sharpens one mind to ask critical questions. Anything which suppresses free thinking is not spirituality, not even a religion, but a cult.</p>
<p>Note also that I really don&#8217;t care what mechanism Mohammed used for sourcing his knowledge (yoga, siddha, tantra, enlightenment, empiricism, Angel Gabriel, plagiarism,&#8230;) nor what mechanism was used to create the Koran as it is today (the number of revisions, abrogations, etc&#8230;).</p>
<p>Here are the quotes from the Koran that were used in the book to illustrate science in the Koran.</p>
<h3>Science of plate tectonics</h3>
<p>The book claims proof that the Koran contains the science of plate tectonics based on these quotes in the Koran:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;Have we not made the earth as a bed, and the mountains as pegs?&#8221; (Qur&#8217;an, 78:6-7)</p>
<p>&#8220;And He has set firm mountains in the earth so that it would not shake with you&#8230;&#8221; (Qur&#8217;an, 16:15)</p></blockquote>
<p>After quoting that, the book takes pages of material <em>from a modern science text book</em> to describe the science of plate tectonics and formation of mountains. And then it concludes, that therefore this is proof that the Koran contains the science of plate tectonics. <em><span style="color: #800000;">Question: if you compare the Koran verses to the pages it cited from the modern science text book, ask yourself, which one is science? which is fanciful poetry?</span></em></p>
<h3>Science of cosmology</h3>
<p>The book claims proof that the Koran contains the science of cosmology based on these quotes in the Koran:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;Then He turned to the heaven when it was smoke&#8230;&#8221; (Qur&#8217;an, 41:11)</p>
<p>&#8220;Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were one connected entity, then We separated them?&#8230;&#8221; (Qur&#8217;an, 21:30)</p></blockquote>
<p>After quoting that, the book takes pages of material <em>again from a modern science text book</em> to describing the origins of the universe, with a brief reference to &#8220;interstellar dust&#8221; (so as to lend credibility to the &#8220;smoke&#8221;). And then it concludes, that therefore this is proof that the Koran contains the science of cosmology. <em><span style="color: #800000;">Question: if you compare the Koran verses to the pages it cited from the modern science text book, ask yourself, which one is science? which is fanciful poetry?</span></em></p>
<p>In contrast for example, in Hinduism we don&#8217;t have to resort to modern science, we have plenty of material dating over 5000 year old on cosmology dealing in mind-bogglingly abstract levels (see a summary in Hindu Cosmology article). In fact, the concept of zero originated from the Hindu text Brahmasphuta-siddhanta (The Opening of the Universe). The zero (and the decimal notation) was invented in order to represent calculations on scales that rival that of todays modern cosmology.</p>
<h3>Science of the workings of the brain</h3>
<p>The book claims proof that the Koran contains the science of the workings of the brain based on these quotes in the Koran:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;No! If he does not stop, We will take him by the naseyah (front of the head), a lying sinful naseyah (front of the head)!&#8221; (Qur&#8217;an, 96:15-16)</p></blockquote>
<p>After quoting that, the book, takes pages of material <em>again from a modern science text book</em> to illustrate the mapping of the brain, with the prefrontal lobe circled (to lend credibility to the act of hitting a person on the forehead, that they knew about the prefrontal lobe). And then it concludes, that therefore this is proof that the Koran contains the science of the brain. <em><span style="color: #800000;">Question: if you compare the Koran verses to the pages it cited from the modern science text book, ask yourself, which one is science? which is fanciful poetry?</span></em></p>
<p>Cavemen smacked themselves on the front of the head if they did anything stupid, heck even Homer Simpson does that, doh! Does that mean they were aware of the science of the brain?</p>
<h3>Science of meteorology</h3>
<p>The book claims proof that the Koran contains the science of meteorology based on these quotes in the Koran:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;Have you not seen how God makes the clouds move gently, then joins them together, then makes them into a stack, and then you see the rain comes out of it&#8230;&#8221; (Qur&#8217;an, 24:43)</p></blockquote>
<p>After quoting that, the book takes pages of material <em>again from a modern science text book</em> to illustrate the various types of clouds and how they carry and form rain. And then it concludes, that therefore this is proof that the Koran contains the science of meteorology. <em><span style="color: #800000;">Question: if you compare the Koran verses to the pages it cited from the modern science text book, ask yourself, which one is science? which is fanciful poetry?</span></em></p>
<p>Well I&#8217;ve got news for them. Many indigenous cultures had a very good understanding of meteorology not only also before modern science, but long before Mohammed as well (various Hindu subcultures, the Native Americans, aboriginals of various continents (Australia, Polynesia,&#8230;)).</p>
<h3>Science of pregnancy</h3>
<p>The book claims proof that Mohammed new about the science of pregnancy based on these quotes sayings of Mohammad (not in Koran):</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;In every one of you, all components of your creation are collected together in your mother&#8217;s womb by forty days&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;If forty-two nights have passed over the embryo, God sends an angel to it, who shapes it and creates its hearing, vision, skin, flesh, and bones&#8230;&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>After quoting that, the book takes pages of material <em>again from a modern science text book</em> to illustrate the various stages of pregnancy. And then it concludes, that therefore this is proof that the Mohammed knew the science of pregnancy.<span style="color: #800000;"> </span><em><span style="color: #800000;">Question: if you compare the Koran verses to the details it pages from the modern science text book, ask yourself, which one is science? which is fanciful poetry?</span></em></p>
<p>Umm&#8230; not to mention, &#8220;God sends an angel to it, who shapes it and creates its hearing, vision, skin, flesh, and bones,&#8230;&#8221; &#8212; they call that science? Symbolism is great, but this verse does not say anything. It simply says God or an angel created you in the womb. Had it described the stages (like that described in a modern science text book), then there would be some merit.</p>
<p>In contrast for example, ancient Hindu texts reflect very deep knowledge of the stages of pregnancy, including not just at the embryo level but also descriptions of fetal development in the metaphysical plane (various layers of consciousness), at least 4,000 years before Mohammed was even born. Not to mention concepts of in-vitro fertilization has also been described. There are several indigenous cultures (Tibetan Buddhists, Native Americans, Australian Aborigines) that also possessed very good knowledge about stages of pregnancy far more than the 1-2 weak quotes mentioned above from the Koran.</p>
<h3>The Quran: Unchallengeable Miracle</h3>
<p>The next few quotes are from the other book that Muslims are proud to wave &#8211; &#8220;The Quran: Unchallengeable Miracle&#8221;</p>
<p>Here I won&#8217;t bother explaining how the other interpolates the respective verse, but will reproduce translations of the verse itself from the top 6 most referenced translations of the Koran.</p>
<h3>Science of plate tectonics</h3>
<p>The Unchallengeable Miracle uses the following to support that the Koran knew of plate tectonics:</p>
<blockquote><p>When you look at the mountains, you think that they are standing still. But they are moving like clouds. Such is the artistry of God, who disposes of all things in perfect order. He is indeed fully aware of what you do. (27:88)</p></blockquote>
<p>Take a look at the top 6 translations of same verse and see how grossly interpolated it is (where does it say the mountains are <em>moving</em>, seems more like they will pass-away/disappear &#8212; which anyone can tell you that happens to everything over time):</p>
<blockquote><p>Sahih International</p>
<p>And you see the mountains, thinking them rigid, while they will pass as the passing of clouds. [It is] the work of Allah , who perfected all things. Indeed, He is Acquainted with that which you do.</p>
<p>Muhsin Khan<br />
And you will see the mountains and think them solid, but they shall pass away as the passing away of the clouds. The Work of Allah, Who perfected all things, verily! He is Well-Acquainted with what you do.</p>
<p>Pickthall<br />
And thou seest the hills thou deemest solid flying with the flight of clouds: the doing of Allah Who perfecteth all things. Lo! He is Informed of what ye do.</p>
<p>Yusuf Ali<br />
Thou seest the mountains and thinkest them firmly fixed: but they shall pass away as the clouds pass away: (such is) the artistry of Allah, who disposes of all things in perfect order: for he is well acquainted with all that ye do.</p>
<p>Shakir<br />
And you see the mountains, you think them to be solid, and they shall pass away as the passing away of the cloud&#8211; the handiwork of Allah Who has made every thing thoroughly; surely He is Aware of what you do.</p>
<p>Dr. Ghali<br />
And you see the mountains, that you reckon inert, and (really) they pass by like clouds- the handiwork of Allah, Who has consummated everything; surely He is Ever-Cognizant of whatever you perform.</p></blockquote>
<h3>Knowledge of Heliocentric Orbit</h3>
<p>The Unchallengeable Miracle uses the following to support that the Koran knew of heliocentric orbit (where does it say <em>the Earth orbits around the Sun</em>?):</p>
<blockquote><p>And the Sun moves on to its destination. That is the ordinance of the Mighty, the Knower. (36: 38)</p></blockquote>
<h3>Knowledge of Geoidal Structure of Earth</h3>
<p>The Unchallengeable Miracle uses the following to support that the Koran knew of the geoidal structure of the Earth:</p>
<blockquote><p>O society of jinns and men, cross the <em>diameters</em> of the heavens and the earth, if you have the ability, then pass beyond them. But you cannot, unless you acquire an authorization. (55:33)</p></blockquote>
<p>Take a look at the top 6 translations of same verse and see how grossly interpolated it is (where is the word <em>diameter</em>?):</p>
<blockquote><p>Sahih International<br />
O company of jinn and mankind, if you are able to pass beyond the regions of the heavens and the earth, then pass. You will not pass except by authority [from Allah].</p>
<p>Muhsin Khan<br />
O assembly of jinns and men! If you have power to pass beyond the zones of the heavens and the earth, then pass (them)! But you will never be able to pass them, except with authority (from Allah)!</p>
<p>Pickthall<br />
O company of jinn and men, if ye have power to penetrate (all) regions of the heavens and the earth, then penetrate (them)! Ye will never penetrate them save with (Our) sanction.</p>
<p>Yusuf Ali<br />
O ye assembly of Jinns and men! If it be ye can pass beyond the zones of the heavens and the earth, pass ye! not without authority shall ye be able to pass!</p>
<p>Shakir<br />
O assembly of the jinn and the men! If you are able to pass through the regions of the heavens and the earth, then pass through; you cannot pass through but with authority.</p>
<p>Dr. Ghali<br />
O company of the jinn and humankind, in case you are able to penetrate through the regions of the heavens and the earth, then penetrate (them)! You will not penetrate except with an all-binding authority.</p></blockquote>
<h3>Knowledge of Egg-Shaped Structure of the Earth.</h3>
<p>The Unchallengeable Miracle uses the following to support that the Koran knew of the egg-shaped structure of the Earth:</p>
<blockquote><p>He made the earth egg-shaped. (79:30)</p></blockquote>
<p>Take a look at the top 6 translations of same verse and see how grossly interpolated it is (where is the word <em>egg-shaped</em>?):</p>
<blockquote><p>Sahih International<br />
And after that He spread the earth.</p>
<p>Muhsin Khan<br />
And after that He spread the earth;</p>
<p>Pickthall<br />
And after that He spread the earth,</p>
<p>Yusuf Ali<br />
And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse);</p>
<p>Shakir<br />
And the earth, He expanded it after that.</p>
<p>Dr. Ghali<br />
And the earth, after that He flattened it (for life).</p></blockquote>
<h3>Proof of Earths Rotation on its Axis</h3>
<p>The Unchallengeable Miracle uses the following to support that the Koran knew the Earth is geoidal and rotated on its axis to produce night and day, just based on the use of the word &#8220;roll&#8221; in this verse. Night rolls into day is such a common poetic phrase.</p>
<blockquote><p>He created the heavens and the earth truthfully. He rolls the night over the day, and rolls the day over the night… (39:5)</p></blockquote>
<h3>Science of pregnancy</h3>
<p>The Unchallengeable Miracle uses the following to support that the Koran had knowledge of the &#8220;sperm&#8221; being attached to the &#8220;uterine&#8221; wall:</p>
<blockquote><p>Then We placed him as a drop in a firmly established lodging (23:13)</p></blockquote>
<p>Where does it <em>specifically</em> say &#8220;the sperm lodges itself to the <em>uterine wall</em>&#8220;? The translations below imply fixed as in &#8220;situated in&#8221; the womb, not fixed as in &#8220;<em>attached</em>&#8221; to the womb, and certain know mention of it being attached to the uterine wall.</p>
<p>Take a look at the top 6 translations of same verse and see how grossly interpolated it is:</p>
<blockquote><p>Sahih International<br />
Then We placed him as a sperm-drop in a firm lodging.</p>
<p>Muhsin Khan<br />
Thereafter We made him (the offspring of Adam) as a Nutfah (mixed drops of the male and female sexual discharge) (and lodged it) in a safe lodging (womb of the woman).</p>
<p>Pickthall<br />
Then placed him as a drop (of seed) in a safe lodging;</p>
<p>Yusuf Ali<br />
Then We placed him as (a drop of) sperm in a place of rest, firmly fixed;</p>
<p>Shakir<br />
Then We made him a small seed in a firm resting-place,</p>
<p>Dr. Ghali<br />
Thereafter We made him a sperm-drop, in an established residence.</p></blockquote>
<p>In contrast for example, ancient Hindu texts reflect very deep knowledge  of the stages of pregnancy, including not just at the embryo level but  also descriptions of fetal development in the metaphysical plane  (various layers of consciousness), at least 4,000 years before Mohammed. Not to mention concepts of in-vitro fertilization has  also been described. There are several indigenous cultures (Tibetan  Buddhists, Native Americans, Australian Aborigines) that also possessed  very good knowledge about stages of pregnancy far more than the 1-2 weak allusions to it in the Koran.</p>
<h3>Knowledge of Particle Physics</h3>
<p>The Unchallengeable Miracle uses the following to support that the Koran  had knowledge of particle physics &#8211; &#8220;that everything is created in pairs&#8221; (which is not entirely true by the way!). It&#8217;s heading is (in all upper-case): &#8220;THE DISCOVERY THAT WON THE NOBEL PRIZE AWARD&#8221;:</p>
<blockquote><p>Glory be to the One, who created in pairs all things that the earth produces, as well as themselves, and other things they do not know.  (36: 36)</p></blockquote>
<p>Take a look at the top 6 translations of same verse and see how grossly interpolated it is:</p>
<blockquote><p>Sahih International<br />
Exalted is He who created all pairs &#8211; from what the earth grows and from themselves and from that which they do not know.</p>
<p>Muhsin Khan<br />
Glory be to Him, Who has created all the pairs of that which the earth produces, as well as of their own (human) kind (male and female), and of that which they know not.</p>
<p>Pickthall<br />
Glory be to Him Who created all the sexual pairs, of that which the earth groweth, and of themselves, and of that which they know not!</p>
<p>Yusuf Ali<br />
Glory to Allah, Who created in pairs all things that the earth produces, as well as their own (human) kind and (other) things of which they have no knowledge.</p>
<p>Shakir<br />
Glory be to Him Who created pairs of all things, of what the earth grows, and of their kind and of what they do not know.</p>
<p>Dr. Ghali<br />
All Extolment be to Him, Who created all the pairs of what the earth grows, and of themselves, and of what they do not know.</p></blockquote>
<p>In contrast, Hindu texts, at least 4,000 year before Mohammed, explored duality and non-duality in excruciating details in almost every one of its schools of philosophy.  So also in Buddhist texts, about 300 years before Mohammed.</p>
<h3>Knowledge of Planetary Orbits</h3>
<p>The Unchallengeable Miracle uses the following to support that the Koran  had knowledge of planetary orbits:</p>
<blockquote><p>By the Sky with its ingeniously devised paths (orbits). (51:7)</p></blockquote>
<p>Take a look at the top 6 translations of same verse and see how grossly interpolated it is (where does it say <em>ingeniously devised</em> paths?):</p>
<blockquote><p>Sahih International<br />
By the heaven containing pathways,</p>
<p>Muhsin Khan<br />
By the heaven full of paths,</p>
<p>Pickthall<br />
By the heaven full of paths,</p>
<p>Yusuf Ali<br />
By the Sky with (its) numerous Paths,</p>
<p>Shakir<br />
I swear by the heaven full of ways.</p>
<p>Dr. Ghali<br />
And (by) the heaven comprising interwoven tracks,</p></blockquote>
<h3>Theory of Relativity</h3>
<p>The Unchallengeable Miracle uses the following to support that the  Koran  had knowledge of theory of relativity. It&#8217;s heading is (in  all upper-case): &#8220;RELATIVITY OF TIME ANNOUNCED 1400 YEARS AGO&#8221;.</p>
<blockquote><p>To Him ascend the angels and the spirit in a day the measure of which is fifty thousand years. (70:4)</p></blockquote>
<p>Take a look at the top 6 translations of same verse and see how grossly interpolated it is:</p>
<blockquote><p>Sahih International<br />
The angels and the Spirit will ascend to Him during a Day the extent of which is fifty thousand years.</p>
<p>Muhsin Khan<br />
The angels and the Ruh [Jibrael (Gabriel)] ascend to Him in a Day the measure whereof is fifty thousand years,</p>
<p>Pickthall<br />
(Whereby) the angels and the Spirit ascend unto Him in a Day whereof the span is fifty thousand years.</p>
<p>Yusuf Ali<br />
The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a Day the measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years:</p>
<p>Shakir<br />
To Him ascend the angels and the Spirit in a day the measure of which is fifty thousand years.</p>
<p>Dr. Ghali<br />
To Him the Angels and the Spirit ascend with difficulty to Him in a Day whereof the determined (length) is fifty thousand years.</p></blockquote>
<p>It goes on to say:</p>
<blockquote><p>If we remember the stories of creation of ancient Egypt, China and India, we encounter wild fancies such as a universe standing on a tortoise or as an eternally existing entity. None of the past civilizations had made any reference to the stages of this evolution.</p></blockquote>
<p>The author conveniently (or out of ignorance) chooses to ignore Hindu cosmology and astronomy, and picks something out of Hindu mythology. Take a look at <a href="http://kaveri.org/wp/2002/08/hindu-cosmology/">Hindu Cosmology</a>, from well over 4,000 years ago. Mohammeds relativistic timescales pales in comparison. It certainly beats the &#8220;created in six days theory&#8221; from the Koran/Bible:</p>
<blockquote><p>We created the heavens and the earth, and all that lies between them in six days, and no fatigue touched us. (50:38)</p></blockquote>
<p>In contrast also take a look at the Hindu <a href="http://kaveri.org/wp/2002/07/evolution/">Concept of Evolution</a>.</p>
<h3>Conclusion</h3>
<p>Bottom line is, there is nothing spectacular or worthy of science in the Koran worth writing a book about (well at least, that&#8217;s what the above two books have just proven). I wouldn&#8217;t really bother to waste time rebutting useless books like this, but hey if you asked for it when you laid that book on me for me to read.</p>
<h3>See Also</h3>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://www.faithfreedom.org/">Faith Freedom</a></li>
</ul>
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		<title>Jesus in India</title>
		<link>http://kaveri.org/wp/2004/10/jesus-in-india/</link>
		<comments>http://kaveri.org/wp/2004/10/jesus-in-india/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Oct 2004 01:09:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>spari</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Religion]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kaveri.org/wp/?p=83</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The question is not whether Jesus was or was not in India, during his 17 lost years, but why not? why do some find it so revolting to consider that? I guess it would have been less absurd and more digestible by Christians, had India been a land of &#8220;white people&#8221;.Secondly, who owns Jesus? Christian [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The question is not whether Jesus was or was not in India, during his 17 lost years, but <em>why not?</em> why do some find it so revolting to consider that? I guess it would have been less absurd and more digestible by Christians, had India been a land of &#8220;white people&#8221;.Secondly, who owns Jesus? Christian missionaries use Jesus as if it is their trademark, and they&#8217;ve copyright&#8217;ed him. The irony is Christianity was created by Rome, the very people who persecuted the followers of Jesus! Just like any company&#8217;s philosophy: if you can&#8217;t beat them, buy them.Here is an excellent article: <a href="http://www.atmajyoti.org/spirwrit-the_christ_of_india.asp">The Christ of India</a>.Here are over a dozen books about Jesus in India. As people are now more open to daring to question the &#8220;lost years of Jesus&#8221; (without fear of crucification or being branded as heretics &#8211; well maybe still the later :)), the evidence is piling up now more than ever:</p>
<ul>
<li><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/091676687X/ref=pd_sim_books_2/102-5554560-3179366?v=glance&amp;s=books">The Lost Years of Jesus: Documentary Evidence of Jesus&#8217; 17-Year Journey to the East</a></li>
<li><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0960285016/qid=1097107360/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/002-8980169-0056848?v=glance&amp;s=books&amp;n=507846">The Unknown Life of Jesus Christ</a></li>
<li><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0970828012/qid=1097107360/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i2_xgl14/002-8980169-0056848?v=glance&amp;s=books&amp;n=507846">Saving the Savior: Did Christ Survive the Crucifixion?</a></li>
<li><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0738835668/qid=1097107360/sr=8-5/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i5_xgl14/002-8980169-0056848?v=glance&amp;s=books&amp;n=507846">Jesus of India</a></li>
<li><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1883255368/qid=1097107360/sr=8-7/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i7_xgl14/002-8980169-0056848?v=glance&amp;s=books&amp;n=507846">Jesus in India</a></li>
<li><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/8185399573/qid=1097107360/sr=8-8/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i8_xgl14/002-8980169-0056848?v=glance&amp;s=books&amp;n=507846">The mystery of Israel&#8217;s ten lost tribes and the legend of Jesus in India</a></li>
<li><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1410106705/qid=1097107360/sr=8-9/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i9_xgl14/002-8980169-0056848?v=glance&amp;s=books&amp;n=507846">Jesus In India: An Account Of Jesus&#8217; Escape From Death On The Cross And His Journey To India</a></li>
<li><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0895819465/qid=1097107360/sr=8-11/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i11_xgl14/002-8980169-0056848?v=glance&amp;s=books&amp;n=507846">Jesus&#8217; Tomb in India: The Debate on His Death and Resurrection</a></li>
<li><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0595127711/qid=1097107360/sr=8-12/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i12_xgl14/002-8980169-0056848?v=glance&amp;s=books&amp;n=507846">Jesus and Moses Are Buried in India, Birthplace of Abraham and the Hebrews</a></li>
<li><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0595127711/qid=1097107360/sr=8-12/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i12_xgl14/002-8980169-0056848?v=glance&amp;s=books&amp;n=507846">Jesus Lived in India</a></li>
<li><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0913321605/ref=pd_bxgy_img_2/102-5554560-3179366?v=glance&amp;s=books">Jesus in Heaven on Earth: Journey of Jesus to Kashmir, His Preaching to the Lost Tribes of Israel, and Death and Burial in Srinagar</a></li>
<li><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0946551995/qid=/sr=/ref=cm_lm_asin/102-5554560-3179366?v=glance&amp;s=books">A Search for the Historical Jesus</a></li>
<li><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1852305509/ref=pd_sim_books_5/102-5554560-3179366?v=glance&amp;s=books">Jesus Lived in India: His Unknown Life Before and After the Crucifixion</a></li>
</ul>
<h3>Bedazzled</h3>
<p>Naturally people were mesmerized by this person who appeared out of nowhere in the Middle-East, like a diamond shining in a place of darkness. A huge fan following grew. Why not? considering that even in todays modern society people can be bedazzled by gurus and preachers, imagine that much more back then in a bleak and dark time of strife and turmoil. Added to that, people were desperate, for a savior.In contrast, because enlightenment was taken up as a science (see <a href="http://kaveri.org/wp/?p=10">yoga</a>) in India, India had so many hundreds of enlightened sages. Thus Hindus never felt the need to fall head over heals over a single &#8220;savior&#8221;, or go into a frenzy destroying, killing, and plundering in the name of their &#8220;savior&#8221; as the &#8220;only savior&#8221;. Hindus are fine with accepting Jesus as one of many enlightened sages. Christians for some reason find that idea revolting.</p>
<h3>Another alternative?</h3>
<p>Is their an even more fundamental origin of Jesus, probably he&#8217;s not even a person?! See this interesting video: <a href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-594683847743189197&amp;q=zeitgeist&amp;ei=t7RSSJ_0DYjkqgOBstyzDA">Zeitgeist</a>.</p>
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